Dr. Deb Cirone: Alright, everybody. This is Dr. Deb Cirone here with Dr. Lynne Mouw and I want to welcome our guest speaker today who is a serial entrepreneur just outside Cincinnati, Ohio, in Mason, where he was actually born as well. So, I’d love to hear all about that transition, and I want to introduce everybody to Dr. David Berring. But I have a question before we get into the specifics about who you are and what you do. I know that there’s some kind of special relationship or something happened between you and Patrick Gentempo that got you into chiropractic, right?
Dr. David Berring: Yes.
Dr. Deb Cirone: I’d love to hear that.
Dr. David Berring: Okay. The story is when I was in undergrad at University of Cincinnati, I was driving limousines with my father, and I had the opportunity to pick up Pat Gentempo from the Marriott outside of Cincinnati and take him to the airport. And so, we got in the van and started heading off to the airport. And you know, Pat, he starts chatting it up and figuring out who he’s with and what they’re about. So, he asked what I was doing, and I told him I was in school for biology pre-med and was thinking about being a doctor. And he asked me what kind of doctor. And then we got into talking about chiropractic. And so, from 45-minute ride that we had to the airport, he said at the end, “Hey, if you decide you want to be a chiropractor, I think you’d be a good one. And if you want to go to school, I’d say… ” He told me to go to Life University and then that he’d write a recommendation for me.
Dr. David Berring: So, after that conversation and two more years of school and finishing up, I thought, yeah, let’s try the chiropractic thing. I looked at the orthopedic route and I looked at the family medicine route, and a lot of those guys liked their money and didn’t necessarily love their job at the time. The Chiropractors I spoke to loved their jobs and didn’t always like the money. And I figured, “Hey, if you love this, you can probably make it work.” So, I called Pat and he wrote a recommendation. I still keep the letter in my drawer to this day, but that’s how I ended up becoming a chiropractor.
Dr Lynne Mouw: Oh my gosh, that is such a great story. I’ve heard it before, but it just struck me when you’re telling it. Like talk about serendipity, right? Like being in the right place at the right time. And it also speaks to Patrick because we know him as a person who’s very prolific, right? Very influential in the fact that he would get in a car, not be on his phone. Maybe it was back before phones. But he engaged with you because he cared about chiropractic to spread the word. So cool that you were the beneficent of that. So, tell us a little bit about your practice. I know that you’ve come a long road in chiropractic. You’ve been the owner of multiple practices, and now you’re still the owner of multiple practices, but you scaled down in kind of a cool way. So, tell us about your journey.
Dr. David Berring: Well, back… I graduated Life in 2001. Went and worked in a personal injury clinic for about six months before I realized that wasn’t exactly what I was hoping for in practice. Decided I could do it on my own and opened an office. Rubbed two magic pennies together and said, “Let’s do this.” I’ve made plenty of mistakes on the way. About three weeks or… Not three weeks. Three years into practice, I decided to expand and open up into another location with multiple doctors. And then it went from one location to three locations to, I think, nine years ago, I opened eight, nine practices, so they were not that awesome, but I had 10, and I was proud of 10. It sounded good, but they weren’t exactly going the way they needed to go. But since then, we’ve shrunk down, as you said. I think we had a UAC event in Hoboken where one of the topics was, “Release. Let go to rise.” And then we had another one about, “Burn it down and start over”, and all those wonderful things.
Dr. David Berring: And then you… It takes me a while to adapt things, to adopt them, I should say. When I hear it a couple of different times, I’m like, “Okay, I know how to do this, I know how to do this.” And then you wake up and go, “Wait a minute. Maybe I should be listening.” So, I decided to shut them down, shrink down to a size that is manageable for quality systems that work versus just having. I decided to release those and improve the core. We may eventually open up more again down the road, but right now it’s a great market to be a chiropractor because there are so many people that want chiropractors that I can’t always find ones that fit my model. So, we know we’ve got solutions for that as well.
Dr. David Berring: But the journey comes back to here. I have currently two practices. One in Mason, Ohio, which is about five minutes from Kings Island, and one up in Wilmington, Ohio, which is about 40 minutes north between here and Columbus. And those practices are I have three chiropractors, and we work all three, and we’re doing probably as much in the two locations as we did in 10 back then, and more efficient. My life is a little bit easier though I’m still very busy.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Yeah, it is amazing. I’ve actually watched because in our group, we have a lot of owners of franchises. And one of the most common things that I’ve seen is that they do a dump, right? They get rid of excess that isn’t working for them. They clarify their systems and their procedures. They get everything back on track, and then they build it to grow because now they know, right? You learn from all those scars, don’t you?
Dr. David Berring: Yeah, scars, scared tissue, right?
Dr. Deb Cirone: Yeah, absolutely. So, one of the things that I noticed is that you do offer some regenerative medicine. You do some other things in your practice, but I also know about you is that… And we just talked about this with someone else, is you kind of like efficiency and you like clarity. You like to know… Confusion never converts, right? If you throw too many things in the bucket, your team gets confused, the patients get confused, the community doesn’t know what you actually do. Tell me, obviously, you’ve figured out how to make it palatable and make it so people understand that this is, I guess, a wellness model. Tell me how you were able to bring all of these different service centers into your practice and keep your team on track and keep your mission and your purpose in focus.
Dr. David Berring: Okay. Well, first, there is the whole burn it down thing, and the teams don’t interact that much. We had the regenerative medicine going, and I think at one of the UACs I was mentioning, we were bringing the medical on board as well. We did the medical thing for a bit, and I’ll tell you, we are not doing that anymore. There’s just too much garbage involved in that. It was… The paradigm was so disparate that we could not agree on a direction. The regenerative medicine is easy. It falls right in line with natural healing. We’re using the body cells to heal the body between PRP, which is probably one of the most impressive regenerative therapies that is available to using the mesenchymal stem cells that are somewhat, I guess, questionable these days of who’s using what. But we saw excellent results with that. All of that’s currently on hold with the medical side because I had to part ways with my medical provider.
Dr. David Berring: But the… That infrastructure is ready to go again as soon as I decide to revamp that. But the chiropractic, massage, the wellness, the weight loss, those are all the things that paid for everything else to exist. So, I said, “Hey, you know what? Let’s focus once again. Let’s get back to the basics. Where are we here? Why are we here? Let’s do this.” And the patients aren’t confused when they come in and talk about the chiropractic, the massage, the wellness. The only confusion may be, “Wait, you don’t want me to sign a 15-year contract?” “No, I don’t want you to sign a 15-year contract. Let’s see what we can do and get you there.” We take everybody here in our practice individually as they need to, and we put them on wellness plans, but they’re not 15 years. So, I do admire the 15-year-old plans. I just don’t…
[overlapping conversation]
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Does that exist?
Dr. David Berring: Does that exist? I have several patients on the 20-year waitlist.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Maybe somewhere. Yeah.
Dr. David Berring: I need to have to figure out how to get other people to realize why they should do it. But no, it’s been a ride. We’ve gone up and down, back, and forth, some sleepless nights, but not many. Generally, I don’t regret any decision I’ve made because, as we said earlier, you learn from the ones that you make that aren’t the best. So now we can revamp again. I know what I didn’t know then, so that when I do relaunch, it’ll be better, more efficient in many ways. I also learned about my staff. So, when you relinquish a lot of control to staff, you have to check in every once in a while, and make sure things are still going the way you want them, because they will take and go the way they want to go with it often. And if you’re absentee owner or looking the other way at another thing, chasing a different shiny squirrel, then you sometimes lose some of the continuity in the process. So, you have to revisit more frequently than we had. So, things we learned.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Great. Let’s go back. You talked about the lecture that Patrick gave several years ago that was definitely in Hoboken about burning it down, right? And that was the story for people who are listening that weren’t there about I believe the restaurant was called Eleven Madison Park. This is a very high-end, fine dining, four Michelin star restaurant in New York City. Just the cream of the crop. And they’d achieved this fourth star. And the story was, and I think he kind of just built in this whole just really cool message around even if you’re at the top, there are times when you just have to just break it all down and reconstruct, just deconstruct and start over, right?
Dr. David Berring: Right.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: So, it sounds like you’ve done that now twice at least that you told us about. So, for people that are listening, what are some signs? Like, how do you know when it’s time? Because you’ve been through this. Tell us, that must have been a very kind of come to a peak where you were like, “Alright, something’s got to change.” So, what did you see? What were some of the signs? How do you know when you should burn something down?
Dr. David Berring: That’s a good question. I think that as an entrepreneur, you start to see signs in yourself and recognize when you’re under undue stress or confusion. When you’re confused about what to do next, then those are good times to start thinking about, “Am I doing everything I should be doing? Is this going the way I want it to go? Can I go a different direction and still succeed? What other things are available to make this better for everybody involved?” I’ve always been a win-win-win person. I never like a win-lose scenario or a lose-lose-win scenario. Those just don’t work well with me. So, if it doesn’t work for my patients, it doesn’t work for my practice, it doesn’t work for my employees, then it generally is not something that I find beneficial to continue with. So, when you start to feel things aren’t quite the way they should be or they’re getting harder instead of easier, then you need to look at the whole system and decide whether it’s worth keeping or worth starting it over.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Yeah. When I started crying on my way to work every day, I realized it was time.
[laughter]
Dr. Lynne Mouw: That was a sign.
Dr. David Berring: I’m never going to admit to doing that.
[laughter]
Dr. Deb Cirone: So, I grew up under chiropractic care. I’ve always loved chiropractic. I was so excited to be in practice. And for many years we did straight and then we integrated medicine. Big mistake for us. For some people, it works great. Didn’t work for us. So, I completely understand that when you’re talking about a philosophy, and I know one of the most important things to you, especially being a part of this group with UAC is connection. When there’s confusion within the practice or between you and your patients or within the philosophy, then it leads to a disconnection. So how difficult would you say was it to reel people in and bring people in maybe from some of the other practices into the current practices that you have now, and help to guide them down that path of getting on track with what it is that you’re doing now without the other?
Dr. David Berring: I think I kept it separate enough that it was not… That it didn’t create confusion for the chiropractic side. We hired in the practice manager. We converted an existing chiropractic CA into one of the management roles and the sales roles in the regenerative side, who then rolled into doing the family medicine side. And when all that kind of fell apart, the communication was breaking down the expectation. I had wanted to guide this as a more natural medicine type of scenario, where we were controlling the not necessarily how things were being done, but the mindset in which people did their work. So, drugs last, surgery definitely last. So going in order of what conservative measures could be done first. Is there any functional medicine or nutraceuticals or things that could be used instead of drugs? That was the plan from the beginning.
Dr. David Berring: The medical side came in thinking, how much money can we make on these existing clinics network? And that wasn’t exactly what I was expecting. So that didn’t last very long. So that became a win-loss scenario, and that didn’t work for me. But I did keep the employees separated enough that when we shut that down, the rest of everybody just kept going, doing what they were doing. All those employees that were in the medical side have since moved on to other places.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: That’s great, David. I love that message about just what’s in that that I hear is just it’s got to align with your sole purpose and with your mission first, and then money follows value, right?
Dr. David Berring: Absolutely.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: So, you’ve been a member of the UAC for, we think, about nine years, right? It’s been a long time.
Dr. David Berring: Roughly. I know we were at the Mandarin Oriental when Stacy and Nate saw me at the Parkers Convention and invited me to that with… Out there. So that was kind of fun.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Wonderful. How funny? And then that was full circle because it was at the time Patrick’s group. So, kind of cool for you, I’m sure, stepping into that. So, tell us, what has the UAC meant to you? I know that you have a very strong accountability group. Tell us about the group in general, what it’s meant to you, and then also about your accountability partners.
Dr. David Berring: Sure. So, the group for me is awesome. I have always been the person that come in and go, “Why am I here? All of these people around us are doing so well. I am… ” Even when I had 10 offices, I wasn’t… I didn’t feel like I really belonged in the room, and I still to this day. I’m humbled by the fact that I get to hang out with all of you cool people. But the reality is that I look around now and I go, well, we’re all here for this. We get to help each other with our highs, we get to help each other with our lows. The accountability program is great because we get together once a week and we say, “Okay, what are you doing? And what do you want to do? And let’s talk about this, let’s talk about that.” And then occasionally, we get the, “Hey, you didn’t do what you were supposed to do”, from somebody in your group.
Dr. David Berring: And that accountability is something that you don’t always appreciate when you’re in charge of everything, because it’s lonely at the top. I say that all the time to people. It’s like there’s nobody out there that knows what you’re going through except for other people who are going through what you’re going through. So having accountability of peers that have had the same experiences or some variant of it is very beneficial because you don’t really know everything. Even wherever you are, there’s still something you haven’t experienced that somebody else possibly has, and we can learn from each other. So that’s what I really like about the group. The connection there, the access is just… It’s invaluable. We need more big groups like this, or at least more people in this group to appreciate more, I guess, more growth across the country. Did I answer that question?
Dr. Deb Cirone: Yeah, yeah. You did great.
Dr. David Berring: My accountability group is awesome. I’ve got Amir Rashidian. He’s been in the group. I think he was the founder of the group originally. I’ve got Butch Sonnier and I’ve got Dave Middleton, and then we have another one in our group that is I think he’s moved on, but we’ve kept him, so I’ll keep that to me for now.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Well, you got a great group there. And one of the things that I have… I think one of the many reasons… There are so many reasons why I love this organization. But the people, I think we all come or most of us come in saying like, “Who am I? Who am I? But amongst all of these successful people, who am I to be here? Or how do I fit in?” And I think that’s what makes us… Gives us all a little bit of that edge. There’s never so much ego that you can’t listen to constructive criticism, which is one of the things that I love about the accountability groups, because these are people that we’re all committed to one another to being honest. And one of the things I always say to my team is you can tell me anything. I may not like what you have to say, but I want to know. And if I can filter that through in my brain and be mature about it, which I feel like this is definitely a group that is, then there’s only growth that you can get from that. So yeah. So how would you say that these people have played a big part in you burning down all of those practices? How integral were they during this process of you finally saying, “I’m letting go.”?
Dr. David Berring: I think fairly integral because all of the people that I’m in in my accountability group are extremely great at systems and procedures and protocols and staff management and expectations and whatnot. And I’ve been more big idea guy. “Hey, here’s the big idea. You all figure it out.” And that doesn’t work and like I said, I’m kind of a slow implementer, so it takes me a while to actually catch on and figure out that I should be doing these things. And every time we’d get together and talk about something and I implemented something, it made it better. And every time we talk, and I am not doing something, and it falls apart, and then I put it back in and then it goes better again. So being with people who are of that caliber, you rise with the people around you I think. I would say if I didn’t have the accountability group, I probably would have not reopened a couple of things or kept some things open. And who knows where I’d be at this point? It’s hard, it gets hard out there some days. So, you’re like, “Yeah, could I do something different? How about selling foot levelers or something?” I don’t know. But it gets crazy. So, without the team, I think there would have been some interesting days.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Yeah, it’s so true. When people… When I try to explain to incoming members that I’ve spoken with or just people about UAC, like trying to explain accountability groups, there’s such an intangible value to your group because sometimes it’s just nothing, but support for you when you’re in a time where it’s really important to not feel alone because you need to take some action. So, I mean, it goes from that all the way up to somebody saying a piece of advice that makes you a million dollars, right?
Dr. David Berring: Right.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Which has happened on those phone calls.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Yeah. Because you don’t need to read a book even, right?
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Yes, yes.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Things that, you know, that we can share…
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Exactly. Yeah. It’s so cool to see those needles move in those small groups. So, we’re just closing up with our time here, David. It’s been so fun to get to know you. I’ve got one final question for you. I’d like to… I’m just going to throw this at you. I would just love to know, you’ve done the multiple practices, you’ve gone in different areas within our profession. What’s something either personally or it could be personally… I’m sorry, professionally or personally that you haven’t accomplished that you’re really passionate about making happen in the next five or 10 years. Basically, your big hairy, audacious goal.
Dr. David Berring: I have not determined my big hairy audacious goal yet because I haven’t done… I’m not done dreaming. I think that I still want to open more practices again. I need to get the right fit; I need to get the things working the way they need to to actually make that happen. I love the thought of actually getting the multi-disciplinary together as the Everybody’s Health Network to be as big as San Tan Network and things like that. That’s my big hairy audacious egotistical view of what I wanted to accomplish a long time ago. The concept is still we can still do kind of like a multiple specialty and still have the same focus, which is the patient which is the positive outcome of people’s adventures and health. It doesn’t have to be what it is.
Dr. David Berring: I mean, we’ve all experienced in the last several years some absolute nonsense and just it’s unnecessary. We’ve got to get back to taking care of people first and profit second, and then I think that would solve a lot of the problems. But being a big group doesn’t mean that you’re just out to take advantage of that. You offer up the services, you offer high quality services that people can understand, they’re not confused about it, they’re simple to implement and duplicatable. And I think that is what we need to focus more on in this group. Not this group necessarily, but in the healthcare arena right now. The last three years have proven to us to be stressful for patients and they’re looking for alternatives that aren’t what they were fed over the last couple of years.
Dr. David Berring: And I think right now we’re in a great place as an industry, as natural health providers to get more people well. And I think we’re going to run into staffing issues more than anything just because we just won’t have enough people to take care of the needle going from 10% to 40% to 50%, which is what I hope to see soon.
Dr. Deb Cirone: I like that. I like the vision. Some of the things that I got from you today is that you are that visionary and you have thrust. I don’t know. Have you done your PDP? I’m sure it said that. If you haven’t done it, then you need to take it.
Dr. David Berring: Okay.
Dr. Deb Cirone: But you’re also very authentic and it’s one of the things that we love about you and we’re so happy to have you on sharing today. And with that said, are there just any last words, any last words of advice or something you’d like to share, something you’d like UACers to know about you before we go?
Dr. David Berring: No. Is this going to UACers or to potential UACers? Who will see this?
Dr. Lynne Mouw: Both, both. Yeah.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Both.
Dr. David Berring: I would say that if you’re in UAC, stay in UAC. If you’re not in UAC yet, get in UAC. After 20 years of practice, we all have our systems in place, whether they are written down or not. We all have some process that we go through on a daily basis, or we wouldn’t be here after 20 years. But it doesn’t mean that all of your processes are good, and all of your processes are the best they could be. But when you get with other people who are going through very cool things, setting up franchises and setting up employment offers and finding people, et cetera, those are all awesome things that you can get value out of this group for, not to mention just you’re with the best of the best. I like all the chiropractors that I’ve ever met, although I don’t always like what they do, but everybody in this group, I can say with a clean conscious is that their intentions are all genuine and I appreciate that.
Dr. Lynne Mouw: That’s so well said and just appreciate you, David, and your big vision and your big heart and thank you so much for being with us today and sharing your wisdom.
Dr. David Berring: Okay. Thank you.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Yes, thank you. My mom always said, show me your friends and I’ll show you who you are. And this is just yet another person representing UAC well. These are the kind of people that are here, so yes. Thank you so much for joining us today. We wish you all the best and any support we can offer or give you. UACers, if you want to step up and reach out to, David, and give him some advice along the way, we would love that connection because that’s who we are and that’s what we do. Thanks, everybody.
Dr. David Berring: Great.
Dr. Deb Cirone: Have a good day.
Dr. David Berring: Thank you.
